Tuesday, March 31, 2015

Vaguebooking... and "dependas"

Recently, a retired lieutenant colonel named Dave Duffy wrote an op-ed for Stars and Stripes about how military families need to get over their entitlement issues.  LTC Duffy and his wife own a couple of smoothie shops and were recently called out for not offering military discounts to service members'  spouses and families.  Duffy's piece was a reminder that business owners have the right to offer discounts to whomever they please.

Frankly, I agree with Duffy, although I think maybe he might be forgetting that spouses and family members are more likely to be buying his smoothies than service members are.  While he has every right not to offer discounts to them, in the long run, extending a discount to military family members might go further in helping him promote his business.  But overall, I get his point and agree with it.

I grew up the daughter of an Air Force retiree who owned a business and I understand some of the challenges small business owners can face.  I also realize that it pays to remember who's buying your product.  Duffy's editorial spawned a blog post written by a male military spouse who pointed out that alienating spouses and family members is unwise.  While I didn't agree with the male spouse's entire posting, I do think he was spot on when he reminded Duffy and other readers that it's more often spouses and family members who have the time to be sucking down smoothies.

Both of these posts about "entitlement" issues seemed to have stirred up a hornet's nest of responses.  Yesterday afternoon, I came across yet ANOTHER post about family members and spouses feeling "entitled".  That post, written by Carl Forstling, spawned a huge number of Facebook comments.  I made the mistake of reading them and came away feeling disgusted by the number of people in the military who refer to spouses and family members as "dependapotamuses" or "dependas".

A "dependapotamus" is a derogatory term used to describe a spouse (generally a wife) who sits on her ass and bitches about her "entitlements".  A "dependa" is the shortened version of that term.  Basically, it refers to women who ride their husband's coattails and try to wear rank while they sit around eating bon bons all day.

Now... I am not saying so-called "dependas" don't exist.  They certainly do.  I think they represent a fairly small population among spouses, though.  It is really disheartening when a spouse or family member dares to make a comment on a posting about "entitlement"-- and generally they are just asking for a basic modicum of respect-- and some jackass in the military automatically refers to them as a "dependa".  These guys-- and it's almost always a guy-- refer to spouses and family members in the most vile manner.  It makes me sad to think of people like my husband having to work alongside people who have this attitude.  Have a look below for examples of what I mean.

Exhibit A:

Why should I respect someone for sitting on their ass when their spouse is deployed? Give me a fucking break. They're not doing a damned thing, and they knew what they were in for when they married in. Oh your spouse is deployed. You're probably cheating on them anyway, and spending all their combat pay. Cry me a river.

Exhibit B:

I take offense at the continued use of the derogatory term "dependa". It's that bullshit that makes wives get their hackles up. We are more than simply "dependents" and it's about time that we stop referring to spouses and children as such. To call someone by such a term is deliberately negative and does nothing to further any kind of discussion. It also discounts anything that spouses do for their families. This seems to be a term particularly used by men, though I've heard women use it, too. So since you're a guy, I'm going to say this: all male soldiers who are married with kids would lose their shit if their wives stopped doing all the things they do and taking care of all the things they take care of during deployments and TDY assignments. Wives are much more than "depends" and while what we do seems like it's not a lot, you're not there to know when you're gone. If I get sick during a deployment, I still have to get up and do all the stuff I do every day, sick or not. I still take care of the house, the kids and sometimes I get a moment for myself. I personally don't want special accolades. But when my husband is deployed, my kids are sick and I cannot get someone to help me out by cutting my lawn so I don't get a citation from the HOA or the city, simply because nobody in my neighborhood is military and doesn't get that my husband can't just "do it when it gets home", I get pissed and think that I'd like a little recognition for the fact that I hold the house together when he's gone and I've got no one who "gets it".

And a response to Exhibit B:

I notice you are overweight and obviously don't take care of yourself. You are literally a dependapotomus. Of course you'd take offense.

Exhibit C:  

i spent 24 years in the AF. i was commenting on all that my wife did while i served and all the things she went through as a dependent. And yes, she does deserve the respect I give her because of it. Just because you are too stupid to understand what a military dependent goes through, doesn't mean their service member spouse doesn't. I have no lack of personal identity because I choose to share an account with my wife, which has nothing to do with the conversation, anyway.

Response to Exhibit C:

I'm pretty sure that she does deserve your respect... and she also has your balls in her purse. Anyhow, whether or not she is entitled to anything special because she changes diapers and watches Real Housewives while shopping for Coach purses online with your money is the topic of the question here, and when some dumbass military wife thinks she should be entitled to extra discounts or her little feelings are more important than everyone else's because being a military wife is just the hardest thing ever, myself and pretty much every intelligent person ever, well... we just facepalm.   

The guy who wrote the above post got into it with a woman who claimed to be a very successful "dependent"...  Their banter was pretty epic.

Exhibit D:

Newslfash: I'm not a dependa, I'm labeled a "dependent' because the military labels me as such. Beyond that, I don't rely on the military for a thing. I have a very lucrative career and don't need nor want my husband to "support" me. And I'd rather businesses save their discounts for the people who really need them, however, when they insist because they know my husband and me I accept and say 'thank you' then move on about my day. Want to label me over that? Go right ahead and see how much I care. 

The guy who wrote this article is clueless and it's probably why he is still single. Come back when you have some real experience to back up this garbage.

The poster in Exhibit D and the guy who responded to Exhibit C got into quite the Facebook cat fight.  And then, some other dude named Jake jumped into the fray with this...

Well aren't you just a self absorbed fucking cunt. Your husband probably married your stupid fucking ass for your money, damn sure didn't do it for your personality. Every thing i hear from you is how much money you make. Go fuck yourself with it how about that? I'd love to say it your face if I could, i'd love to have a long heart to heart with your husband too about how much of a cunt he reeled in.

To which the well employed spouse wrote in Exhibit E:

LOL Jake. That all you got? Cunt? Really? HAHAHAHA wow. Big man you are calling a woman a cunt. BOO HOO. Am I supposed to cry? Get mad? All I can do is laugh at you. WOAH!! Hold on. He called me a cunt. OH NO! LMAO. What a child. 

Here is a piece of advice for you: Build a bridge and get over it little boy. I'd love for him to have a conversation with your CO. There are eyes everywhere... Oh, but wait you are a FORMER Marine whose checks were signed by THE NAVY. FORMER Marine. Huh. Like anything you write could ever matter to me. Do you really think that? 

Entitled much? Who are you to hand out passes? You're just a pathetic little boy. Sheesh. Angry much? The VA offers free therapy for people like you. Use it. Please.

Good night now. Have a real life to go live... you should go get one for yourself, too. Oh wait! Almost forgot to sign off...

Signed,
"The Cunt"

And finally, we have Exhibit F:

Let's just make it simple. Obviously there are too many damn dependa with lack of comprehension which the majority are claiming they should be entitled to something being married to a military personnel because they think they are special and have the toughest job. If you completely disagree, just write the congress. Afterall, you are married to the military. Otherwise, accept the fact that you ain't entitled for shit you didn't earn and get it over with. You want entitlements? Join the service. Besides, why bitch in whine in social media when you can talk to their chain of command and address your concerns? Do you guys even know FFSC, or MilitaryOneSource? Go talk to them and find out. Sorry ass dependas!

There's a lot more where this came from, but you get my point by now.  Bill is now retired, so I no longer have a dog in this fight.  I have noticed, however, that spouses seem to be damned if they do, damned if they don't.  If a spouse has a job or an education, she is belittled for that.  Last night in a local Facebook group, someone vaguely got called out for referring to their education.  The poster doing the calling out wrote this...

Nothing funnier than a venter who is hell bent on proving that their IQ is bigger than their Fat A$$

Now... the guy who posted this never actually identified the person to whom he was referring.  My guess is that I am the one he's posting about, though, probably because in another post, I linked to this blog, which is called The Overeducated Housewife.  Of course, since the dude "vaguebooked", I don't know for sure if he meant me.  But I am going to assume that he did, just so I can explain something to the people who read this blog and think I am "bragging" about being "educated". 

First off, if you read the comments above, a whole lot of guys in or affiliated with the military seem to have no respect for so-called "dependas".  These are women who, according to them, have no purpose other than pumping out babies and living off their husband's paychecks.  They are scorned and vilified by people in the military community.  Some vocal guys affiliated with the military seem to have this attitude about just about every military spouse.  I have to wonder where they get this outrage.  Some of the hatred reflected in their posts make it seem like they wish these women would all just fuck off and die.  I have to say it's kind of chilling.   

But then, if you're someone like me, you also get outrage and derision.  Apparently, it's not cool that I went to school and spent two years abroad working in a developing country.  Clearly, I need to "remember my place" as a humble "wifey" to my husband.  I shouldn't draw attention to my accomplishments, which have nothing to do with wearing rank, having babies, or riding my husband's coattails.  I achieved them before I got married, after all.  

I am formally educated because I was trying not to become a "dependa".  I met and fell in love Bill when I was in grad school.  I intended to have a career when we met and after we got married, but things didn't work out that way for me.  So now I have three degrees, which we are still paying for.  I don't need three degrees to do what I do every day.  If I had known years ago that I would be marrying a military guy and moving all the time, I certainly would not have bothered with grad school, so having this "education" is superfluous.  I don't necessarily feel smarter for having it; in some ways, I feel dumber.

On the other hand, I probably would not have met Bill if I hadn't gone to grad school.  Maybe I'd still be waiting tables.  Who knows?  The point is, I got my education because I was trying to launch myself, not because I want to belittle others by lording my worthless degrees over them.  And it is very frustrating to have done all that and still get referred to as a "dependa", even though some of the people who use that term would claim they aren't talking about people like me.  The rest would just emphatically remind me that I'm "not special" and not deserving of any respect.  Maybe they're right.

I'm not really sure how spouses of military members can win.  It seems that you're either an uneducated baby making machine who is trying to carve out an undeserved identity by marrying a military guy with "status".  Or you are a pompous bitch who flaunts her education and reminds people that she had a life before she was married to a military guy.  Those who don't fall into either of those categories are given a silent command to just sit down and shut up.  Seems to me if you dare to express yourself, someone will promptly try to put you back in your place.  The message is, "Don't ask for respect for being a military spouse.  And don't try to improve yourself, because you're not special.  You married a military guy and that doesn't entitle you to jack shit, including anyone's respect."        

Anyway, yes, this blog is called "The Overeducated Housewife", but it's not because I'm trying to impress anyone.  I write blogs.  That's how I spend much of my time because I don't have a full time job, friends, hobbies, or kids.  Maybe you think I'm wasting my time or that my life has no value.  There are many times when I feel that way, even though Bill tells me every day that I mean a lot to him.  The title is meant to be ironic, though.  The truth is, I often feel like a failure at life.  You don't have any respect for me?  Well, you might be surprised to know that I often don't have much self-respect.  Though I have a good life and am very happy to be married to Bill, I can't say that this is what I envisioned my life to be.    
    
The vaguebooking guy who made the above comment eventually followed up with this...

Just find it really comical how often people mention their education in an attempt to justify their stupid outlook or opinion

I have to say... I don't have a lot of respect for people who call someone out, but don't have the backbone to be specific and tell the person they're calling out what's on their minds.  Maybe I have no right to say that out loud, though.





Monday, March 30, 2015

On Upworthy today... gay black guys complain about trying to date outside of their race...

I happened to catch this video this morning...



Gay black men talk about what it's like trying to date outside their race...

I have to admit, I found this video kind of funny.  I mean, I totally understand where these guys are coming from.  It must be very demoralizing when someone comes up to them and says, "If I were into black people, I'd totally date you..."  

On the other hand, I really don't think these guys are highlighting a unique problem.  Most everybody's looking for some kind of connection with someone else.  If you don't fit into a narrow definition of what society deems acceptable, you may have problems finding that connection.  The truth is, a lot of people are very shallow; not everyone is, of course, but many people really are.  Some folks take being shallow and superficial to an art form.  In fact, I think it's worse the younger you are; which, ironically, is when many folks are at their most physically attractive.

The guys in this video explain that it's hard to be black or mixed race and gay.  They complain that there is no one else like them and white guys don't find them attractive.  Or the white guys do find them attractive, but they don't have an open mind about dating black guys.  Actually, there are other people like the guys in the video.  They're in this video, right?  But I guess no one who participated in the video wanted to hook up with each other.  I kind of wonder how they'd feel if some gay white guy made a video about how gay black guys weren't attracted to them.

Isn't this a problem that affects a lot of people, though?  Speaking as a "fat woman", I have heard many crappy comments about why no one wanted to date me.  Hell, on my second SeaDream cruise with Bill back in November 2011, there was an obnoxious British guy on the ship whose wife had just died of breast cancer.  He repeatedly referred to his deceased wife as a "cow" because he was upset that she'd died.  He made other remarks that indicated that he only found certain types of women attractive... as if I ought to give a shit.  Upon hearing that Bill was in the Army, he actually wanted to know how it was that we could afford the cruise.  

On the first night of the cruise I was in the piano bar with Bill.  I was singing to him and Bill was really enjoying it.  No one else was in the bar except for me, Bill, the piano player, and the bartender.  The obnoxious widower came in and, as he heard me singing, his eyes widened in surprise.  He said to Bill, "Now I can see why you'd love her."  When I gave him a shocked look, he grabbed me and gave me a very awkward and somewhat unwelcome hug, making it clear that he knew he'd just made a really rude remark.  Really, his insistence on hugging me made his comment all the more mortifying, because he'd gone from insulting me to pitying me.  Honestly, though, I don't need to be pitied.  I have an enviable life and I'm married to a guy who isn't a shallow fuckhead like him.   

Granted, I wasn't looking my prettiest that night.  I was wearing a dress, but I had a really bad blistering sunburn because my sunscreen had failed me on a speedboat trip around Antigua.  The hot, humid weather had not allowed me to style my hair effectively.  And yes, it's true that I'm no skinny minnie, either, though I do think I'm pretty proportioned for my size.    


The Norwegians took these photos of me while I was singing...  They aren't flattering pictures, but look at Bill's face.  Does it matter that many random people wouldn't think I was attractive?


There must be some reason why he loves me...  but our love didn't start with a serenade.  


I'm still not skinny but at least here I don't have a sunburn or unruly hair.  Some people would still wonder what Bill sees in me, though, because I'm not *their* type...

Later, this same guy stole liquor from the piano bar (most of it was included in the price, but he and another passenger stepped behind the bar and helped themselves) and almost started a brawl with a bunch of Norwegians.  He was drunk and he thought the Norwegians, whom I thought were a lot of fun, were annoying and obnoxious.  The British guy even invited one of the Norwegian guys to "step outside".  It really kind of put a damper on the mood in the piano bar.  

At the time, I excused many of the British widower's rude remarks as coming from someone who was distraught and grieving.  In retrospect, I probably should have told him to go fuck himself and I didn't blame his wife for croaking on him.  He was a prick.  It later occurred to me that I may not be the type of woman this man "fancies", but that doesn't really matter.  In my eyes, Bill is a much better "catch" all the way around than that drunken asshole Brit is.  I'm not sure why he felt his opinions about my looks were really important, anyway.   Now that I think about it, the British bloke also made some shitty comments about gays.      

Unfortunately, the dating world is rife with self-absorbed jerks who think nothing of subjecting innocent people to their boorish behavior.  Too many people care what assholes think about them and they allow these shallow fucks the power to alter their moods.  I admit it.  It offends me when people say stupid, hurtful things to me.  As I age, I'm getting a lot better at not caring, though.  

I'm sure that race is a real problem among gay people of color.  I hear their complaints, too.  In fact, in some ways, I can relate.  It's a real challenge to get some people to see beyond the external.  Maybe it's lucky that I met Bill online and he got to *see* my personality before he saw what I look like.  On the other hand, on my ugliest day, I'm still way more beautiful than his ex wife was.  And my beauty compared to hers has nothing at all to do with physical looks, but rather with how I treat other people, Bill in particular.

It can take time before you can see a person's inner beauty.  Unless you happen to be blind, what a person looks like on the outside is instant gratification.  An attractive outer package may make you want to get to know a person better.  But what if you approach them for a closer look and find out that beneath the surface, they are shallow, insecure, rude, and mean-spirited?  On the other hand, someone whose looks are average or below average may have attractive qualities that don't immediately meet the eye.  How will you know if the sunburned heavyset lady with the weird hair has a pretty singing voice and a wicked sense of humor if you never deign to speak to her?

Anyway, the comments on the YouTube video I posted are pretty interesting.  Lots of women chimed in about experiences similar to mine.  Indeed, there were a lot of comments from self-described "nerdy redheads" who said no one wanted to date them because of their unusual looks.  I have several redheaded friends and almost all of them have beautiful hair.  Apparently, red hair can be an instant turn off for some folks.  Not me, though.  I'm a big fan of gingers.

    

If you aren't comfortable with yourself, you can send out signals that others shouldn't be comfortable with you, either.  I really think that's the root of the issue, anyway.  If you don't love and accept yourself as you are, it's hard to expect others to love and accept you.  But still, I get why it's hurtful and depressing to have no control over some aspect of your appearance and have other people make unkind remarks that insinuate that you should care about what they think.  Many of us are conditioned to care what others think of us, which makes those kinds of comments brutal to hear.

The guys in the video are who they are and they can't help it or change it.  I just don't think their experiences are that out of the norm, though.  Many people are part of groups that are someone deemed "unattractive" in one way or another.  Many of those people can't do anything about being in those groups other than just be themselves.  Perhaps the best thing to do is learn to embrace and work with what you have, rather than trying to get shallow idiots to notice and appreciate you.  



Not sure what to think about this video... though it is a sign that some people are into black guys!

   

Yahoo! writer doesn't want kids... gets her tubes tied and tells the Internet...

Call it a force of habit.  I use Yahoo! more often than not when I do an Internet search.  I know I should probably use Google, since Google is better reputed.  But I have been using Yahoo! since I first started surfing the Web and old habits die hard.  The fact that I use Yahoo! means that sometimes I run across blog posts written by Yahoo! writers.

Now... I used to write Yahoo! articles myself on Yahoo! Voices and, before that, Associated Content.  Those were the days when one could make money writing on the Web, and I did.  So did a lot of my Internet friends.  But then in 2014, all three of the places where I regularly submitted work decided to unceremoniously tank.  I now concentrate my writing on my own blogs and a music blog I contribute to.  It's not been a bad thing, though the cash flow is not as good as it used to be.

In any case, this morning I read an article written by Chelsea Hottovy called "I Got My Tubes Tied at 28 Because I Don't Want Kids".  This is a piece written by a young woman who has always known she doesn't want to have children.  She decided to take permanent steps to prevent having them by having a doctor perform a tubal ligation.

Chelsea lists many good reasons why she doesn't want children.  She likes her freedom.  She owes a lot of money on her college loans.  She doesn't want to deal with teen angst, diaper rash, or "tummy time".  She likes kids just fine and would happily be a babysitter, but she doesn't want kids of her own.

Frankly, I think if you know you don't want kids, it's good to make sure you won't have them.  I think it's very selfish to have children you don't want.  Permanent sterilization is low risk and allows a somewhat carefree lifestyle...  until you decide you were wrong about your lack of desire for children.

I am somewhat the opposite of Chelsea.  I wanted to have children and always assumed I would.  Then I married a man who had a vasectomy when he was only 29 years old.  He thought he was done having children.  Then his marriage fell apart and his kids disowned him.  He married me and had the vasectomy reversed.  It was supposedly a successful operation and we didn't even have to pay for it, thanks to the Army.  Unfortunately, I never conceived.  Back in those days, we really didn't have the extra money to try for any reproductive treatments, even though they would have been inexpensive for us.

It was during that time that I realized that I thought I wanted kids... but I probably didn't want them that badly.  I have never been really comfortable around children, though a lot of them seem to like me because of my zany sense of humor.  As time went on, I started to accept the fact that my "kids" would all be of the four legged variety.  Then I looked at all the things I have in my life that I may not have had if I had children.  I'd be lying if I said my biological clock hasn't been gonging for years.  A the same time, it's great to be able to travel and spend my days doing mostly whatever I want to do.

Kids are a big crap shoot, anyway.  You could end up with wonderful, easy kids who are loving and sweet.  Or you could end up with monsters who are psychopaths.  People often want to blame the parents when their child does something wrong, even when the "kid" is an adult.  Case in point, Andreas Lubitz, who apparently deliberately crashed the Germanwings plane last week, had parents.  They are shut up in their house right now, presumably very ashamed of what their son did.  I often wondered about Timothy McVeigh's parents, and how they must have felt when their son blew up the Alfred P. Murrah building in Oklahoma City back in 1995.  Later, they had to endure his execution by the federal government.

Don't get me wrong.  I know that most kids grow up to be normal, decent adults.  And if you are in need of assistance when you are old and grey and you have a nice adult child who is willing to help you out, that can be a tremendous blessing.  But having kids just for the sake of those kids possibly helping you before you die is a dumb idea.  You can't force them to help you.  Indeed, life is getting so hard these days that by the time you're done helping them launch into the world, you may be ready for the nursing home.  And by that time, they may be having their own kids who need their help and resources.

I can understand why Chelsea Hottovy prefers to keep her womb vacant.  And hell, people like her make it less traumatizing on the Earth that people like JimBoob and Michelle Duggar will keep breeding until their genitals disintegrate.  The world needs people who don't have kids because if we all had 19 of them, there would be problems aplenty!  On the other hand, to get your tubes tied at 28 is quite a decision.  Fortunately, she lives in an age when permanent sterilization can sometimes be reversed.  She can also adopt if she wants to, though that's not as easy as some people seem to believe it is.

The older I get, the more I think maybe it's best to just go with the flow, wherever life takes you.  But that's just me and I mainly made that decision because every time I've tried to control the direction of my life, I've ended up somewhere I wasn't planning to be.  It's like trying to fight the current in an ocean swell.  Just try to prevent those waves from knocking you down the beach.  Chances are, you won't be able to.

So at 42, I've kind of given up on it.  I do what I can to plan for the future, but I mostly hope for the best.  I hope Chelsea remains happy with her decision not to have kids and that her best laid plans remain best for her.  And hopefully, she won't be one of those women whose tubes grow back together somehow, especially if she really doesn't want to reproduce.  I hope that she stays happy focusing on herself and her life and she never has any pangs to share what she has with a child of her own.  Chances are good that she won't, but you never know.

I have to admit, I used to have that strong drive to reproduce, but it's definitely withered away...  I can't deny that when it comes to making babies, some peoples' biological clocks maintain a flashing 12:00.  


Sunday, March 29, 2015

Amanda Knox gets her life back...

I know the Amanda Knox case is pretty controversial.  I am glad to know that the case is finally closed so she can get on with her life.  I was in Germany when Meredith Kercher was murdered and Knox was all over the news last time we were here.  It amazes me that almost eight years later, Knox is still in the news and the Italians were still arguing over whether or not she or Raffaele Sollecito were guilty.

I don't know if Amanda had anything to do with Kercher's murder.  Personally, my gut tells me that she didn't kill Kercher, but hell, I wasn't involved and only know what everybody else knows.  It just seemed to me that there wasn't any real evidence that she had killed her roommate.  The evidence was pretty thin and the investigation was badly botched.  Even still, Knox spent four years in an Italian jail, where she sharpened her Italian skills.

I'm truly sorry for Meredith Kercher's family, though.  I'm sure it must be terrible not knowing what really happened to her the night she was killed.  That being said, jailing Amanda and Raffelle will not bring Meredith back.  If there is any doubt that they were guilty, I think it's best not to put them in prison.  I think the case against them was very weak.

Other than reporting that Germany is now on daylight savings time, I don't have much else to write about today, though the day is young... I may be back later.  Maybe Janis Ian will inspire me again.  

Saturday, March 28, 2015

Janis Ian, provocateur...

Over the past couple of years, I have developed an appreciation for Janis Ian.  She's famously known as a singer-songwriter who wrote thoughtful social consciousness songs like "Society's Child" and "At Seventeen".  She's also apparently a really cool lady with a wicked sense of humor and quite the moxie.

Some time ago, I started following Janis Ian on Facebook.  I am frequently surprised and delighted by her posts, which are often funny and thought provoking.  Yesterday, in the wake of Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration Act, Janis started posting jokes about religion and politics.  She even dared to post this.

Dear Abby,

My church believes dark skin is punishment from God. My best player is African American. Should I bounce him?

Mormon in Indiana

Naturally, this post brought out heated protests from members of the LDS church.  Janis Ian got accused of spreading hate and being a bigot...  I must say, the comments were pretty funny.

  •  Gosh these are funny and I appreciate the point you're making, but isn't signing Mormon in Indiana just doing the same kinda bigotry? I've meet a lot great Mormon's in my time and I know that there are lot of creepy Mormon's as well, but really this one should be thought through. Maybe too pointed? What do you think Abby?
    Like · Reply · 3 · Yesterday at 4:22am · Edited
    • Janis Ian One of my closest friends in the world is a devout Mormon. I don't think it's any more bigoted than citing Christians or Jews or any other sect - they're all fair game. And to those arguing that the Mormon church changed after an LDS priest had a "revelation" that dark-skinned people were not cursed, that was relatively recent. Plenty of Mormons still believe it and are taught it. And no women priests? Come on. Same as my own religion, Jewish - orthodox Jews don't have female rabbis. I expect at some point there will be a revelation about that too, if it makes sense politically and economically.
      My two cents.
      Unlike · 28 · 19 hrs
    •  Cha-Ching!
      Like · 19 hrs
    •  yeah but if it was signed Lesbian? One for all and all for one.
      Like · 18 hrs
    •  really everyone justify s their hate just like that. doesn't it need to stop somewhere?
      Like · 18 hrs
    •  Janis, from looking at the comments, your "Dear Abby" letter has apparently convinced a lot of your followers that this is current Mormon belief, and it's not. Your Godzilla haiku are a bright spot in my day, but this from you just makes me sad.
      Like · 14 hrs
    •  I think it' hilarious!! Every mormon I've ever met had been a whack job! Just sayin'... My two cents!!
      Like · 14 hrs
    •  I don't think the Mormonism is, currently, any more racist any other mainstream religion. There are, of course, fringe sects (probably more accurately, cults) which do espouse racist beliefs.
      Like · 11 hrs
    •  research the mormon church and their financial and land holdings and wonder...what are they actually tryng to do. it is worth the time
      Like · 6 hrs

    Now who's a bigot? You're absolutely wrong that Mormons believe that. Some members of that church in the 19th century were bigots, reflecting the beliefs of the time and of their culture. These beliefs were taught within small communities in the intermountain West that were ignorant and didn't have much communication with the outside world. The Mormon church has released a position paper on race and its history which admits some of its leaders in the past taught racist dogma and today rejects all of those theories or beliefs. You can find it here: https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng For information about black Mormons, check out Genesis Group: http://www.ldsgenesisgroup.org For information about Mormon outreach to the LGBT community, check out Affirmation: http://affirmation.org

      I am a Mormon Seminary teacher. This is not a correct understanding of what our church teaches, and it makes me sad that misinformation like this is being spread.

      Like · Reply · 17 · Yesterday at 2:40am

      I'm a seminary teacher as well. We often talk of the stereotypes the kids face at school. Sad...

      Like · 1 · Yesterday at 4:19am

      You're right. I have a number of close friends who are LDS members. They're good people, not bigots and not phonies and I know your church doesn't teach rasicm...but with that said, the FACT still remains that organized religion in general is the single greatest source perpetuating ignorance on the face of the earth....and the Republican party is a close second.

      Like · 2 · 11 hrs · Edited

      Oh get a sense of humor ... The church of LDS was a major player in prejudice against blacks for decades

      Like · 2 · 20 hrs


      • PoppyTim Cahall's photo.
        Like · 8 hrs
      •  first what does that have to do with the price of beans? Second- give me a break. Live and let live and move on.
I had a good time reading what people had to say.  The comments ran the gamut, but the ones from TBMs were the most entertaining.  As usual, they were spouting off what they have been taught by church leaders rather than what is actually in their scriptures.  Read it and weep.

Yes, I know that "Mormons don't believe that anymore".  Why?  Because they were told not to by a "living profit".  Why did that happen in 1978?  Why didn't it happen much sooner?  Especially since the Book of Mormon is, according to Joseph Smith, supposedly the "most correct book on Earth", even though it's been revised many times since Smith declared it to be so "correct".  You know... Smith's statement reminds me a little of these statements...



Liam Gallagher



Lennon was right. And we are bigger than Jesus. We will be as big as the Beatles, if not bigger.

Liam Gallagher
Read more at  http://izquotes.com/quote/67706

In fairness, the LDS church was originally fairly egalitarian for its day.  Evidently, it was Brigham Young who had egregiously racist opinions.  Of course, he now has several Mormon owned universities named after him.



Here's some more...

The entire Book of Mormon is based on the pure, white and delightsome "Nephites" vs. the loathsome, sinning "Lamanites" who were cursed with brown skin due to their "iniquity." Lamanites are considered to be indigenous peoples, such as American Indians, Hispanics, and Polynesians. Of course, this reflected the Cowboy vs. Indian mentality of the early 1820s when Joseph Smith pulled the religion "out of his hat". The Book of Mormon is the foundation of the LDS Church to this day. The Bible is secondary to the BOM. Of course, due to the internet and negative PR, the LDS Church is slowly changing their policies and editing out portions of the Book of Mormon.
Like · Reply · 1 · 9 hrs · Edited

Bullshit. Someone made this up or you (Janis) are exactly like all the other haters slashing it all around.

This is totally stupid and completely untrue. Mormons believe all humans are spiritual brothers and sisters. The statement is an outright lie and does not deserve an answer. Moronic and stupid. Divisive and racist. Lessons taken from today's presidential political hate - centric team of fraudsters.

The Church was established in 1830, during an era of great racial division in the United States. At the time, many people of African descent lived in slavery, and racial distinctions and prejudice were not just common but customary among white Americans. Those realities, though unfamiliar and disturbing today, influenced all aspects of people’s lives, including their religion

  • I'm sure this is meant as a joke, but whomever wrote the joke does not know Morman beliefs. Google it. The views in the Morman Church regarding African American's in the Morman Church changed a long time ago. Still a big fan of you Janis.
    • Hide 12 Replies
    • Thanks for making this clear.
    • They sort of changed in the 80s
    •  No, they changed it. Not sort of.
    •  I actually had a Mormon who was looking to move into my neighborhood, go knocking door to door to ask if any black people lived on the street....
    •  Was actually around 1978.
    •  Plenty of Mormons here and I never heard anything like this from them.
    • But it was their doctrine....probably just changed to be more politically correct...
    •  More bodies = more tithing = more money in the Mormon coffers
    •  It was changed only after the NCAA threatened BYU over it's race policy, the prophet had a new revelation that blacks were not punished afterall and were acceptable thus avoiding NCAA sanctions.
    • Ah yes, Mr. Kimball's "vision". From God, of course. Very important for the NCAA rules.
      Like · 21 hrs
    •   I find that hard to believe.
      Like · 20 hrs
    • The change in the Church had nothing to do with being PC or money. It was through devine revelation from the Prophet.
      Like · 13 hrs




  •  Janis please check LDS website. One more like this, I bounce you!

  • This is but a small offering of the comments posted.  I got a kick out of the guy threatening to "bounce" Janis if she doesn't post what he likes.  Like she gives a shit if he quits following her...  And of course, checking the LDS Web site will not be that educational regarding this issue.  Mormons are very good at whitewashing their past and covering up things that are embarrassing.  Those who go to any official Mormon source hoping for unbiased information are likely to be disappointed.  Of course the church is going to put out information that makes them look good and their intentions innocent.  They preach about "milk before meat", don't they?

    Besides, 1978 was NOT that long ago, people!  I remember that year and I'm only 42 years old.  I understand that this is an embarrassing part of the not too distant past for many church members.  They'd like us to forget it.  Perhaps, in time, people will.  But Janis Ian writes the truth, upsetting as it may be to some members of the church.  I applaud her for being so brave and outspoken.  Yes, it's embarrassing, but people should talk about it.  That's how knowledge evolves and everyone who is LDS knows the "glory of God is intelligence", right?  Moreover, Mormons are certainly not the only ones with ugly chapters in their histories.  Does it really help to deny reality and/or pretend it doesn't exist anymore?  

    I, for one, would have much more respect for LDS church members if they'd just own up to their past and stop screaming about bigotry and hate mongering when someone makes a true but unflattering comment about their church.  Stop telling people they are taking things "out of context", are "confused", or "don't understand what they're reading".  Stop insulting peoples' intelligence.  It's true that many people don't choose to join the "one true church", but that doesn't mean they're stupid or have poor reading comprehension skills.

    If you want to be Mormon and it makes you happy, that's great.  But don't tell others who don't share your love for your church that their opinions are wrong or misguided or condescendingly tell them that they are "confused" or "lack context or understanding".  It's very possible that you're the one who is confused.

    You know, I live in Germany now, which has a somewhat recent and very ugly history involving Jews.  But the Germans own up to what they did and have moved to make amends.  They don't whitewash it or sugarcoat it.  They accept that they did wrong and they have, for the most part, made a sincere effort to effect real change in thinking.  I think Mormons and other groups could take a lesson from them.   

    I encourage Mormons who want to tell Janis to "educate herself" to go ahead and take their own advice.  Do some reading about Mormonism that is not officially endorsed or authorized by the LDS church.  Have a look at some of the scriptures before they were revised.  You might be surprised by what you find out.